I will put it simple.

Rogue - buff adds distance and negates damage.

Marksman - adds distance.

(To me atleast) rogues are defined as the sneaky rangers and they can play around traps and other variations of escapes - makes sense to add some damage negation to define the class even more.

But if marksman dont have the damage negation, atleast they could have a reverse strength in their buff in terms of damage to give a feeling of general difference between the classes.

I've heard argues about adding speed buff back to offensive imminence, but tbh i think people are fast enough in this game and speed is sort of an OP attribute, I would suggest something else that lies more in the core of marksmans, such as:

Adding like 2% crit boost/hit chance into the buff would fit the marksman kit and define them better, like the rogues.

Why crit? it adds up with the general idea of a marksman + the crit spell - rogues currently has the same base crit conditions as a marksman, they also have the same points available on expertise talents and more available talents in multishot than marksmans.

" 2% crit boost/hit chance WTF SO OP!? " - " Damage negation WTF SO OP!? "

- Equality is good.

Yes, even though the spell description still doesn't show anything specific (what is needed to old/new players that don't know it), CM Mercury confirmed that Belligerent Focus grants 4% negation of damage:

https://www.playzezenia.com/forum/thread/19766/post179051#179051

But a known fact is the spell offensive imminence buffs more distance skill than belligerent focus.

So if a Ranger choose to be a Rogue, he or she will get a balanced buff between distance skill bonus and defense: negation of damage.

If he or she become a Marksman will get an offensive buff receiving more distance skill bonus than a rogue with same lvl, ml and distance skill.

Furthermore, i agree, offensive imminence could be changed to buff around 5% of critical hit boost to bring back some equality for both.

Agreed, Marksman feels like the old Rogue. Taunt is useless in PvE, why not make it like barbed arrow so that we can dot as well?

On the other hand Rogue's have their traps ( which are OP ), adding to that they can change them into ice traps with their talent. They have an attack speed buff and 3 damaging spells.

I'm not asking for Rogue to be nerfed but it would be really nice to see Marksman gets some love.

EDIT:
What was the reason for the spell 'Iron Endurance' to be removed from Marksman? Even though it was kinda mid, I wouldn't mind having a longer speed buff F.E.

Hello,

First of all, you knew what marksman was gonna be from the the beginning.

Rogue Buff - Adds distance (+7 in my case) and negates 4% dmg

Marksman - Adds DIstance (+14 on equal level marksman).

Marksman buff is DOUBLED from rogues... Marksman have their own OP spells

Piercing shot - Monsters lose 90% physical defense, OP? Makes the avarage arrow hit 100+- higher (tested on Geltharian DIre Boars)

Dexterous Shot - STRONGER than lethal ambush
- Rogue level 252 - distance, Mlvl 16 same bow - 434 hit
- Marksman level 262 - Distance 129, Mlvl 15 - 619 hit

Marksman have 2 (could be 3 with the special Talent) very good, low cooldown aeo spells, great for teamhunting.
Piercing shot - Tested on 262 marksman hits 820
Spread shot hits 490

two spells on low cooldown that Rogues dont have.

And lets not forget the OP drunk spell Marksman have...


Each class has their own good spells, but I dont think they are that far apart from eachother... Maybe show some examples like I did and start a constructive discussion. Dont attend issues whats not the case, we all know that zezenia rather nerves than buffs and I dont want to get my class nerved based on false information.

I have played both classes recently. Low and higher levels.
Marksman was the newer one played with less skill.

This was a test just in dracolich I did solo on lower levels.

Rogue level 100 had 110 distance +24 with gear so 134 dist total.
Making 1.6kk/hr in dracolich with no boosts what so ever.

Marksman level 80 had 70 distance +24 with gear so 94 dist total.
Making 1.4kk/hr in dracolich with no boosts what so ever.
(Pierce shot ftw)
Look at the level and skill gap between the 2 and the xp/hr
If i missed pierce shot and didnt tag the monster with it, yeah it was alot less dmg resulting in way less exp/hr.

Another test.
Brought a marksman and rogue to diroth. Marksman was level 150+ with 100 dist. Rogue was similar in all aspects (Skills, gear, everything)
The marksman cause of pierce shot, me and 1 other person were able to down diroth in 45 seconds.
Rogue however, took about a minute+.
Again marksman winning here.

So im a bit confused on how marksman fall behind in terms of dmg on rogue. From what ive seen, and played, marksman are stronger then rogues. But really depends your playstyle. I see why people like rogues and I see why people like marksman.

Overall about classes dmg. The new gear alone has bumped everyone significantly. If anything gear needs attending to. Its broken the game and made it almost no challenge.

Gear needs a nice nerf imo.

Paladins can really use that fix they have been longing for.
Also need to cap life steal or something. Its just become effortless when you have 20%+ in life steal and every attack you do heals you full health. *cough barbarians cough*

There are many other "Gaps" to be filled. Leave rangers alone.

Let's ignore the fact that everyone wants the best for themselves, and actually address the issue of balancing.

As the player Red Eyes mentioned above, in a way that I also think, the most appropriate way to balance a game is by looking at numbers, concrete data.
Previously, the player Godzilla brought up the xp/h discrepancy that a pyromancer did (which was absurd when compared to other subclasses), reaching 3x the exp of another class.

Small adjustments were made, and taking into account that each subclass does have its own characteristics, there should be differences in xp/h. But even so, it is still very discrepant.

I'm a level 800 barbarian, and everyone can see on my twitch channel that the best xp/h I get is 34kk/h. This hunting at the limit, taking risks (losing a combo = death) I DEPEND on my life steal.
and spending a lot with boost.

*templar knight exp+hp= 38 zz coins,
*templar priest exp+hp= 36 zz coins,
* 74 zz coins in total.
max exp = 34kk/hour.
this is all taking into account my level (800+) and using the best equipment available in the game.

While a mage, warlock level 600 does 35kk/h hunting ice throwers, or HC dark knight.
spending much less. the risk is similar.

Rangers have improved a lot compared to before, but still lag behind in terms of exp/hr.

Paladins have lost their usefulness (I don't know why the cleave hasn't gone back to 100% damage and 2 seconds). it would also be good to increase the sweep's dmg cap.

concluding:

warlock and pyromancers are very good, they make excellent exp.
rangers still need minor tweaks.
shaman has no function in late game.
warriors are bad for exp (just look at the comparison at the beginning).

this is concrete data. do not keep throwing loose words in the forum (I'm not saying that you did that), look for data.

Here we go again...

I promise myself to not loose time on forum more, because - unlikely to many banished players in the past weeks - I play manually.

BUT I cant resist xD

The concrete data @Briareu mentioned is little wrong. For sure he didnt do it on purpose, so let me make correct the numbers.

600 Warlock is making MAX for what I know ( believe me, I have some good knowledge in this matter) 32 k/h on ice throwers with full, 33% exp from eq : 28 coins boost. And believe me, as well as Barbs, or even more, such Warlock risk deaths on that hunt.

From what I ve heard a +- 580 Barb was making around 34 kk/h on geck zah let the number speak area - btw he got BANISHED. That boost costs 36 coins with geck/xyo/fire being boosted.
Probably if not even 600 Barb can make such exp there, Briareu can make there more than 34 kk/h that he mentioned on templars area.

So please, stick the real, concrete data... dont lower yourself kk/h while adding to others kk/h...

In my opinion every subclass is now in the place it should be.

@Thread





I must comment it XD

Rogue attack speed buff = marksman critical continuum
Rogue lethal ambush (annoying 1 sec casting) = marksman dex shot ( which is instant spell and hits more, idk why)

And here the best part: Marksman have aoe spells which allows him to hit all chest of monsters on team hunt, while Rogue in party can only put trap on blocker and shot hellish volley - which Marksman has as well as with 3 other nice, aoe spells: piercing shot, spread shot and arrow volley. In opposite to that, Rogue has two, 1 target spells - barbed arrow and ruthless execution - which has being forgotten by Staff (Ruthless Execution is hitting less than Barbed Arrow while it was always the strongest Rogue spell with high magic level and 30% life requirement, they might forgot to increase the dmg of that spell as they increse nicely Barbed Arrow).
Please dont destroy the reality... Marksman dont really need a buff in comparison to Rogue, btw Staff has implemented great option of changing subclass - you should try it out if you think Marksman doesnt suit you...

Rogue is pretty nice and the gameplay is pretty diffrent than Marksman, but Marksman has his great advantage in party teamhunt where he is making almost twice the damage of Rogue. Still, solo hunting with Marksman is a very good experience and its not worse than Rogue one...

At the end I want to say that eq enchant make us really strong, I believe Staff is working on some nice update, with high end game quest, nice hunting spots which can carry 4-5 ppl in teamhunt with new, powerfull monsters, so the Shaman subclass will be in need at high end gameplay.

At the end I need to come back to the Barb issue - even when Paladin has being improved, like 80% population of them changed to Barb and many of them are making good daily exp (and they received many BANS btw xD ). On the other hand Pyro has being nerved, and not so many of them changed to Warlock, and only 1 is actively playing (thats are Elysium facts, idk how it is on other servers, but I did saw for example a 640 Pyro from Pharos making amazing exp couple days ago).

Cheers to everybody, dont start the exp/h issues... its really boring, if You guys really cant stand your subclass - change it! If You think some class is better than the other - make new character, its really simple. We have a fresh new, nice ZERA server, Elysium is really nice too. Its really easy to make high level on any character if You want in less than a year ;)

Kind Regards
Top Ranger Everest (before ranger improvements)
Top Manual Player
Your's
Silencerxz

this one is so true and hurts like hell haha.


@ontopic,
Imo its hard to balance things around level 500s. Every class is great in their own way and some goes by ur liking and some don't. Some classes still need some work but its hard to judge it. We've came from a world thats been many years old with all end-game gear available into a new server with a whole new dynamic gear system. Drastic changes will affect Zera by ALOT. Ofcourse everything is strong on a 10 year old server with all items forced into legendary tier, where it takes no more effort than killing a 1 minute boss once per 22 hours. So please, before shouting everything is OP and needs nerfing, there will never be a perfect balance for servers like Elysium and Pharos.

On the rogue vs Marksman thing, i personally think its too eurly to judge. Every class is strong in their own way. Rogues just scale quicker than marksman. Eurly game a rogue only skips 1 (or 2 if you use traps aswell) second to do damage over time where a marksman needs to skip healing to deal damage. When that factor is out of the picture, marksman will do a shitton of damage. (look at other servers). Not to mention how OP marksman are in PvP with the drunk spells lmao.