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Baltas
Player

Pharos
Level 312
Mage
11 days 10 hours ago (Last edited 11 days 10 hours ago)

I Hope this thread stays here for some time and I will be able to post about every vocation and every subclass. In this post I talk about Mages and rangers. Warriors will come up later as it's time consuming to make that kind of post.

I stated in another used that example in another thread, but once this thread is all about balances I copy it here. We take a mage who have 1000hp (level 161 if no durability talents).

Buffed mages

Warlock could block 1000/0.7= 1428 damage with their full hp (0.7 because buffed warlock receives 70% of the damage as 30% negates)
Pyromancer 1000/0.66= 1515 damage with their full hp (0.66 because buffed pyromancer receives 66% of the damage as 24% negates and 10% goes to mana)
Shaman 1500/0.9=1667 damage (1500 because higher lvl shaman gets 50% extra hp and 0.9 because buffed shaman negates 10% of the damage)

Advantages of warlock in PVP -
Locate and anti locate is useful in pvp worlds.
Combined spells like cage, dispell, raise of pace.
Single target full 4 hit combo.
Spikes is second best trap spell of 3 mages.

Curse (should make the warlock pzed once they use it, maybe do 1 damage?)

Advantage of warlock in PVM - dark gathering helps in solo hunts. Some people consider it a huge deal. I will say it helps, but not a game changer as it saves MAX 1 turn per combo. Compared to shamans and pyro, if they had to sacrfice 1 spell tern combo - it will be flame strike or stalagmite which is around 7% of their damage done per 5 seconds??? And that's only in hunt spots where warlock actually don't have to heal by spell and shaman/pyro have to every combo.

Biggest disadvantage - weakest buff.


Advantages of pyromancer in PVP -
The best and easiest trap spell is firewall. This spell helps to trap and survive the most.
Invisible - still can be useful. But because of the fact, that rogues invisible spell is better, its forgotten as a good spell.
Brimstone cloud - helps to survive.
The strongest damaging class of all mages.
Combined spells raise of pace and mass invis.

Advantages of pyromancer in PVM -
Area damage + strongest spells in game makes them the best solo hunting class in game. Which helps in PVP as well in a long run. Because Pyromancers can rush lvls faster, get more tanky and stronger damage dealers.

Biggest disadvantage. I would say being unable to combo in fights whenever they want. Losing mana with the fire shield doesnt help them, but in my opinion its a smaller disadvantage than the previous one.


Advantages of a shaman in PVP
Strongest buff is both PVP and PVM advantage
Paralyze - easy to aim, good way to kill a guy. (Should make the shaman pzed, maybe do 1damage?)
Burst of speed - still a good way to catch a target or lose a target. But I would suggest it not to take away their regular haste/raise of pace. Once they lose burst of speed their previous speed buff would remain.
Bravery - I know it was nerfed few times. But its still useful in both PVP and PVM. Zezenia is a game of many hits per second. More hits you get more useful bravery is. If from 1000 damage hit it will take away 50dmg. (aka 5%) so from 10x 100 damage hits it will take away 10x50=500 dmg (aka 50%)
Stone skin - still not sure whats the formula of the length, but still can be useful once it reaches few seconds
Area healing/ friend healing/party healing in PVM and PVP helps to keep friends into the fight.
Last hope - maybe a little harder to use, but still can be useful in pvp.
Nature shield makes Shamans even more tanky

Advantages in PVM
The most tanky of all mages. Bravery, heal friend etc.

Disadvantages of a shaman - doesn't have single target 2 second spell. But if you ask me, Pyromancer 4 second spell is not a distance spell. So it being the biggest argument of shamans as a weakness is a little bit smaller weakness than it seems for me.


To sum up this part I would like to say that every bigger team needs every mage class in their team to have all combined spells and all of their abilities. But I would rate it like this Shaman is the best mage class, pyromancer and warlock is somewhat balanced.
shaman got 3 huge boosts in survivability (from 40% hp increase to 50% hp increase, from strong heal to shamanic heal, from 0% damage reduction to 10% damage reduction). All together in rushed them in front of everyone by a lot. Compared to pyro who got nerfed and warlock wasnt touched. It's unfair.

Suggestion: I would suggest to take away 10% damage reduction from shaman buff. And leave other two classes buffes as they are:
shaman would still have 150% of their original hp
Warlock would still be able to block 142.8% of their original hp
Pyromancer would still be able to block 151.5% of their original hp


Another problem which touches mages the most if the fact that magic reduction items stack with their buffes in a wrong way.

Always before, when there were 2 factors which negated damage it was counting one after another.
Suppose a warrior hits 100 with melee on a monster. And then he goes to warlock who got the same defence as that monster
Warlock is buffed and its pvp damage.
Damage received = 100*0.75*0.7=52.5dmg (0.75 because there is 25% pvp damage reduction and 0.7 because its 30% buff on a warlock) you can see clearly even tho it's 25% and 30% but overall damage went down from 100 to 52.5 which is 47.5%. This happens when one buff goes after another

Another example of magic damage
Suppose there is a mage hitting 1000 on a target with a spell. He goes to warrior/ranger. Suppose these guys have 10% magic resistance eq

damage received = 1000*(1-0.25)*(1-0.1)= 675 (25% pvp dmg reduction and 10% magic resistance).

what happens if mage goes to another mage depends what level and m lvl that target have. As theres a formula of natural magic resistance. Magic resistance = (lvl+m lvl)/950)
Lets say that target was lvl 200warlock m lvl 70

Damage received = 1000*(1-0.25)*(1-270/950)*(1-0.3-0.1)= 322
(0.25 pvp reduction, 270/950 natural magic resistance, 0.3 absorbing aura, 0.1 magic resistance eq).

and how it should be (as I believe it's just a mistake in the formula)
Damage received = 1000*(1-0.25)*(1-270/950)*(1-0.3)*(1-0.1)= 338

You could say it's not a huge difference (322/338= 0.95 aka 5%), but it gets huge once people get more % of magic resistance eq. Let's consider +- full set which is around 25?? (241/282 = 0.85 aka 15% difference)

DMG received with current formula = 1000*(1-0.25)*(1-270/950)*(1-0.3-0.25)= 241
Dmg received with my possible new formula = 282

So all what has to be changed in the formula is that the mage buff and magic resistance eq shouldnt stack. They should work like everything else. First one takes effect, then another. Trust me, it's a huge deal in late game.


If someone noticed a mistake in my post, please just write @Baltas and tell me instead of quiting. It's a hell long post I have made :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rangers:

Spells/ Advantages of Rogues:
*A little stronger buff comes with a price of losing hp. I like the way it scales – very slowly so it doesn‘t get OP at any point of the game. Great to make small changes instead of huge ones.
*Stealth. Very unique spell in my opinion. Makes Rogue sneaky. And that could be a reason for some people to choose Rogue in pvp world.
*Mass Dissapearance. Not sure if I agree that this spell should exist. Maybe for a short time. To keep Rogue more unique.
*Leathal ambush req less mana than dexterous shot. Something which adds up. Small advantage in my opinion.
*Evasion. As many people proposed, make the atacker being unable to retarget that Rogue for at least a second. I would suggest it up to 2seconds. But the spell itself is great. Just the bot made it weaker. It‘s still great against fair players. Because they ussualy take couple seconds to retarget
*Dead silence. Makes rogue more sneaky. Also them being able to hunt in peace.
*Cloack of darkness great support type spell. Works with a team.
*Short Escape – combined spell of 2 rogues. Makes them invis and super fast for 7seconds. Even when pzed. Good spell IMO.

Advantages of Marksman
*Taunt – should be an advantage but it‘s not. As many people proposed, would be great to make people unable to mana up for 2seconds once they got taunted or even rework it completely (Any ideas?). In late game this spell doesn‘t help to survive at all.
*Iron Endurance. Would need a formula to see how good is that. There is a small difference between normal haste and that one. Maybe this spell could add let‘s say 30-40 levels speed while stacking with the speed boost marksman has? (Also would be nice to see the formula how speed works overall in zezenia. People know how BOH and Time ring works in Zezenia Cousins, but we are blinded here.
*Arrow Valley aka paralyze. Great spell. A little hard to aim, but it‘s fair. Spell should stay as it is IMO
*Offensive imminence – Good buff, scales slowly as its supposed to scale IMO.
*Instant transmission – Not super useful spell IMO. But eh, better to have than not to have.
*Increased yield – Description is not changed in „spells“ in game. It makes the party members crit hit. Good pvp spell.
*Critical Continuum good PVP spell. Some people say it can be useful in hunts, but not really. But In pvp it‘s a good spell which increases damage output for the marksman.
??? Strong bewilderment. Used my 166ranger to cast it on my 312 warlock and then ran straight line with that warlock. 1 test made me misstep 1sqm, another test didn‘t have effect. It said I was drunk, but moved straight line. So something should change without making it op, but at least work properly.
Same goes with combined spell between marksman and pyro. Made me misstep 1sqm. So I can‘t think of the situation where marksman will use this spell. The feature itself is interesting. Just needs improvement.

Which one is better? In my opinion Marksman is a better class right now, only needs to change effect in taunt/bewilderment.
Rogue must get Evasion improved. And maybe 1 extra spell? (hp heal for 40seconds. Mana cost 200, M lvl 9, CD 180sec. Formula HP heal per second=square route(lvl+3mlvl)*5
https://gyazo.com/0702b85c4854860dcb0f644fb559b1e9
Examples lvl 51 with m lvl 10 would heal 45hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 67 with m lvl 11 would heal 50hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 85 with m lvl 12 would heal 55hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 355 with m lvl 15 would heal 100hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 840 with m lvl 20 would heal 150hp every second for 40seconds

Disadvantages of Rangers:
*Weak heal, weak defence
*Lack of area spells

Ideas what to change on rangers overall:
~Not to lose the competition with levels. Rangers have to be able to improve their damage with the time. ~Not being stuck at skill 100 dieing once a week, or being stuck at skill 130 dieing once a month without ability to get better.
~Make it so the spell precision would stack with the buff rangers cast. Because once rangers get m lvl and lvl for their buff, precision is taken out of hotkeys. I love the fact how slow precision scales, but only if it stacks with their buffs.
~Make it so rangers dont get exhausted from regular training after they have done the task. It won‘t make anything OP. Trust me. A guy who just lvled up to lvl 100 (1x server) and have lets say 100skill (thanks to thorvald osvald) He would have like 102 skill if he gained that training all the way in hunts. It‘s a small improvement, but it motivates. Ask any ranger/warrior. Maybe it‘s a lot better idea than making skill rate 2x?? Because people would be able to have 2x in perfect conditions and biggest efforts. And 1x while just making tasks.
~Damage scale a little bit more with lvl and a little bit less with skill. To values we have now, add 10% on dmg per lvl and take away 10% of dmg gained per skill. (If I saw the formula I could evaluate a lot better)
Volvo V
Player

Elysium
Level 262
Mage
11 days 8 hours ago

I'm waiting for new attacks spells for pyros. :smartass:
Pogmage
Player

Pharos
Level 19
Mage
11 days 7 hours ago

i played a server once where skills were 3x faster when u were lvling.

could be a nice incentive pro warriors / rangers.
Silmarllion
Premium

Pharos
Level 307
Ranger
11 days 6 hours ago

Quoting Baltas:

Which one is better? In my opinion Marksman is a better class right now, only needs to change effect in taunt/bewilderment.
Rogue must get Evasion improved. And maybe 1 extra spell? (hp heal for 40seconds. Mana cost 200, M lvl 9, CD 180sec. Formula HP heal per second=square route(lvl+3mlvl)*5
https://gyazo.com/0702b85c4854860dcb0f644fb559b1e9
Examples lvl 51 with m lvl 10 would heal 45hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 67 with m lvl 11 would heal 50hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 85 with m lvl 12 would heal 55hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 355 with m lvl 15 would heal 100hp every second for 40seconds
lvl 840 with m lvl 20 would heal 150hp every second for 40seconds

Disadvantages of Rangers:
*Weak heal, weak defence
*Lack of area spells

Ideas what to change on rangers overall:
~Not to lose the competition with levels. Rangers have to be able to improve their damage with the time. ~Not being stuck at skill 100 dieing once a week, or being stuck at skill 130 dieing once a month without ability to get better.
~Make it so the spell precision would stack with the buff rangers cast. Because once rangers get m lvl and lvl for their buff, precision is taken out of hotkeys. I love the fact how slow precision scales, but only if it stacks with their buffs.
~Make it so rangers dont get exhausted from regular training after they have done the task. It won‘t make anything OP. Trust me. A guy who just lvled up to lvl 100 (1x server) and have lets say 100skill (thanks to thorvald osvald) He would have like 102 skill if he gained that training all the way in hunts. It‘s a small improvement, but it motivates. Ask any ranger/warrior. Maybe it‘s a lot better idea than making skill rate 2x?? Because people would be able to have 2x in perfect conditions and biggest efforts. And 1x while just making tasks.
~Damage scale a little bit more with lvl and a little bit less with skill. To values we have now, add 10% on dmg per lvl and take away 10% of dmg gained per skill. (If I saw the formula I could evaluate a lot better)




Im not sure sustain is the way to go for a rogue, i rather see bloodtheft work in pvp to, couse it should. its just a few % leech. I think rogues needs a dmg buff to compete.
Atirador Do Oeste
Player

Elysium
Level 130
Ranger
11 days 6 hours ago (Last edited 11 days 6 hours ago)

Quoting Pogmage:
i played a server once where skills were 3x faster when u were lvling.

could be a nice incentive pro warriors / rangers.


wouldn't be fair with those who trained with 1x till now and have really good skills.. but i agree, if you don't have cooldown you may train/hunt with 3x skills or they just may open to train on cooldowns, would help a lot, i.e myself, i'm training, i'm not using any pcards right now and i'm not using any till i get the skill i want, if they open this block i would use to do tasks every 3 days like i was used to do and keep training while it
Anciientt
Player

Novus
Level 10
Mage
11 days 5 hours ago

it would be cool to have arrows with different uses, eg explosive arrows (damage in area), arrows with penetration in armor (for rangers can do some good damage in warriors), poison arrow (leaves poisoned target giving x damage for x time)

runes for mages, like tibia avalanche, great fireball, etc

and add new hunting areas to hunt in area with a shaman healing the warrior, same in the tibia when a knight hunts with druid in roshamuul,
Allusion
Sage

Elysium
Level 283
Warrior
7 days 15 hours ago

Lethal Ambush and Dexterous Shot both are in the same "tier", but Lethal requires 150 mana and Dexterous 180. I think Lethal Ambush cost should be either increased to 180 or Dexterous Shot be lowered to 150.
Pappaheinz
Premium

Novus
Level 132
Warrior
2 days 11 hours ago

warrior

ideas pvp good or bad dont know

babarian should have 25 % more damage then paladin
paladin should have 25 % more defence/tanky then babarian

atm i tested the bloody cross spell vs the holy sword paladin have
the bloody cross cost twice the mana 640 and did 100 less damage and the paladin is single target spell is it suppose to be like this ?

maybe att dual wield or 2 handed weapons for damage but put - stats in defence for babarian so its a bit diffrence in the classes

sure babarian got great spells like hunted cage,dispel,primal scream and so on but i feel like a babarian play more support role then damage role in pvp
thats just my opinion

ofcourse everything most be tested but just ideas
Pappaheinz
Premium

Novus
Level 132
Warrior
2 days 8 hours ago

add magic resist on ranger/warriors in pvp from lvl 170+ its way to unbalanced

im not that high lvl yet but on a 218 mage i did combo a lvl 165 paladin that had 2700 health i did 1300 give or take in 1 combo
on mages i do around 400-500 same lvl
and mages can outheal 2 other mages combo but the ranger/warrior will die i think this is a problem like many ppl said before but nothing is happening in pvp =)

and i havent done the % spell damge quest either and the scale is only worse when mages get higher vs rangers/warriors you most have a solution otherwise there is no use playing warrior/ranger in pvp
Silmarllion
Premium

Pharos
Level 307
Ranger
2 days 7 hours ago

Quoting Pappaheinz:
add magic resist on ranger/warriors in pvp from lvl 170+ its way to unbalanced

im not that high lvl yet but on a 218 mage i did combo a lvl 165 paladin that had 2700 health i did 1300 give or take in 1 combo
on mages i do around 400-500 same lvl
and mages can outheal 2 other mages combo but the ranger/warrior will die i think this is a problem like many ppl said before but nothing is happening in pvp =)

and i havent done the % spell damge quest either and the scale is only worse when mages get higher vs rangers/warriors you most have a solution otherwise there is no use playing warrior/ranger in pvp


yupp its a problem, an easy way to fix this without recoding is probably to let warriors & rangers magic ressist talents work in pvp to.
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