Hello,

I might be making a few different threads based on each class I have played with the current issues. The MAJORITY of the discussion will be on the current huge problem with AOE classes and Single target classes, but I won't go over that yet again as it's already outlined in this thread (Discussion/Suggestions).

I will be comparing a lot of things against a paladin, 'cause to me it makes no sense that a ranger(DPS) has close to the same single target damage to a paladin(TANK).


The current problems as I see them.

1. Our weapon attack is on par with a paladins (Ranger 26.3att / Paladin 26.1att).
2. Our Single target damage (ON MONSTERS PVE) is waaay to low to compete with AOE classes.
3. Because of the need for FULL crit sets our defense stats are low, meaning we need to heal a lot.


My suggestions.

1.
Currently we're on par with a paladins 1h weapon.
Our end game bow is 26.3 attack and a tanks 1h weapon is 26.1 attack, to me this makes no sense that our auto attacks are the same damage as a tanks auto attack. If we compare it to a barbarian then the difference is huge, a barbarians end game weapon has 34.5 attack.

My suggestion would be to be somewhere inbetween a paladins 1h weapon and a barbarians 2h weapon, some examples would be.
Paladins end game weapon 26.1 attack / Rangers end game weapon 31.5 attack / Barbarians end game weapon 34.5 attack.
Paladins 100 quest weapon 22 attack / Rangers 100 quest weapon 24.4 attack / Barbarians 100 quest weapon 27.4

2.
Currently we get around 50-60% that of a TANK(Paladin) in terms of EXP/H, that's not including Barbs or Pyros which is even worse.

My suggestions would be make Rangers multi-strike 100% against monsters(PVE ONLY) and keep the 50% for PVP.
Increase Dex shot/Lethal ambush by 25%.
Reduce barbed arrows cooldown to 15-18 seconds OR reset if the monster dies with the barbed arrow effect on it.

3.
Currently if you want to do any sort of damage as a ranger you need to go for a FULL crit set (This increases your damage but nowhere near close to AOE classes) but by doing this you lose out on around 20% magic resistance from equipment. Due to this you need to heal a lot so a suggestion is to rework meditation.

My suggestion would be Everytime you crit it reduces the cooldown of your meditation by 1 second.


I know that the staff will probably not read this, but this was just a thread I could vent my frustrations and ideas.

Ahh man I wish you were the guy in charge of changes! I wouldn't even cloak myself. I'd welcome anyone into my spawn and happily send em back to the temple.

100% multi-strike...is ridiculous. Which PALADIN makes more xp/h than me? (If they hunt solo)...probably NO-ONE. Maybe Nykarxz if he bots HC DK/HC Devils. But even then I know spawns where I could get 14kk/h SOLO.


I do agree with the weapons though. I got Warsong (grinded 4k challenge points) and it BARELY made a difference. I remember Caste's auto attack (with his wand) did a little less than I did with my warsong auto attack. :/ Was a sad sight to see.

Barbed arrow with the talent point is fkin overpowered if anything, decreasing the cooldown would make it even more OP. Barbed arrow does more damage than my ruthless execution (which I think is a useless spell tbh).

Our AOE spells do suck. Even the traps once you reach my level kind of lose their touch. The multi-strike is what saves my XP/H but 100% would REALLY be busted.

All in all. You'll never find full balance. Fk it. Pyromancer will always reign supreme in my eyes. Doesn't hurt for staff to try everything you've stated albeit seems really overpowered. (Because in Zezenia...LEVEL = POWER).

This is the type of discussion we need, thanks for replying.

In terms of the sending people back to the temple because of muti-strike etc, I only suggested raising that against monsters.

It would be great if you could record yourself hunting and what setup/talents you use etc, so we can get some good testing done, I will ask someone tomorrow if they can do the same with a paladin around your level to see how they compare.

I do admit I have yet to reach the level so I can test the barbed arrow talent, I guess once I reach that point I can give a proper assessment.

One of the main problems I see with trying to balance is "new" rangers and "old" rangers being totally different because of the 5+ years of training required for those skills and them skills making a HUGE difference. (There is also no way I could ever catch up to get close to your skills without time).
(Thats another reason why I dislike merging the seasonal with existing servers)

Finally a thread whats worth logging into the forums for.

I totally agree that the difference between Pyro's/Paladins/Barbarians solo hunting wise is beyond over powered.

Most of you know that I am also HT Savage, 400~ warlock with full set and decent magic level. well nowadays its considered a low level, but it wont change the fact that we are in a full dissadvantage.

If i want to make decent experience on my warlock I need to push hard on monsters like what are medium to high risk for me. And even then I dont even make near the exp I would make on my Paladin.

Paladins just go to a spawn, tank 5 monsters comfortably and make the best exp there is. not even mentioning the money. I am not the guy to ask for numbers and proposals but I can confirm that there is a big gap between those classes. (also the reason I quit leveling my warlock and went and played my paladin.)

Its been a while for me but I tested it out some time ago. Boulder throwers on my warlock I made (full pushing) like 9-11kk per hour if i recall correctly (ofcourse it would be alot different now considering you can use the beastiary). But meanwhile on my Warrior if I went to any hardcore spawn/geckzard/geckzah/mighty werebears/ mighty magician werebear/ Dracoliches, Ice demons I made the best experience and even made my money back while FULLY BOOSTING them and easily make above 20kk per hour.

Would be nice to get some input from the staff members on the situation.

Every single spell class have a huge disadvantage in terms of PVM.

And the scariest thing is that the higher level people get, the bigger gap between their exp/h becomes. Because aoe classes with lvls can lure more monsters and not only their dmg increases with lvls, but also they hit more monsters. Paladin f.e. have no reason to lure more than 5 monsters, but their cleave will make enough to feel the difference between rangers/warlock/shaman.

Advocating for my class I can ask. Whats the purpose of the warlock nowadays? least tanky of all mages. Not sure how strong is shamans hailstorm after you put talent point on the boost. But I suppose these two classes make similar dps.

Rangers are great in pvp against mages. Leathal ambush deals huge damage. but in hunts they still cant compare with aoe classes.

I remember i proposed to work on single target monsters. To make them more appealing to those who cant lure many monsters and aoe. I love new cross of annilation. Maybe making 2sec cd on it would be even better. But solo hunting on warlock is so boring and demotivating when u know how paladin/barbarian and pyro can make so much more.



Taking some statistics. Atlas is the newest server. So we can see what people prefer to play. Top 20lvls have
6pyros
3shamans
2marksman
2rogues
2barbarians
5paladins
0warlocks

Checked Elysium most exp per week top20 (i dont take highscores on lvl because old servers doesnt say everything. Some old chars can still be there when there werent so many hardcore spawns for aoe classes)

2pyromancers
3shamans
3barbarians
12 paladins
0 warlocks
0 rogues
0 marksman



Staff. Do we abandom 3 classes?

It's crazy to think nothing has been done about this situation yet.
A friend asked "Furious" on Pharos what his best exp/h fully boosted was and he said between 13-15kk/h. Now keep in mind he is a level 450 Ranger with the BEST distance in the whole game, with the best crit set you can get and he is still behind "Agron" (posted above) by 5kk/h looking at agrons skills he is 30 skills behind.

All while a Paladin/Barbarian/Pyromancer can use a FULL MR set getting 30% magic resistance and a ranger HAS to use a full CRIT set and hes still that far behind.

This is just the surface in the difference between AOE and single target classes.
They get more from using Life steal, they can complete tasks quicker, get more loot etc. All on low monsters so they don't have to pay the super CRAZY amount of noble coins for the boosts.

Like I said before there is currently no reason to be anything other than a Paladin/Barbarin or Pyromancer.
There is ZERO advantage for being a single target class at the moment.

(I agree there needs to be someone who can look into making GOOD single target monsters, currently all monsters loot are the same (in terms of very rares being like 1/1000 etc) but single target specific monsters cannot be like that due to them killing a lot less etc)

My pet peeve with rangers is that auto attack damage scales well with skills and horrible with level. After a while skills goes very slow while levels are still gained at a decent phase.

Spells scales well with levels. Meaning that at high level everyone becomes a spellcaster. My spells already outdamage my non-crit auto attacks by far. Meaning that most of my damage comes from spells. I'm an archer, not a mage who happens to shoot arrows.

At high level the vocation with spells that has the best level scaling - which by default is AoE if you count it for each monster your hit - will be the winner.
I did like the boost for monsters that are hunted 1 by 1 with the fall update.

I've posted on other Mernz's topic a proposal to increase PVM damage of some spells to buff single target classes so we can define parameters to change something.

Warlock: Cross of Annihilation +33% and Deathblow +50%
Shaman: Hailstorm +33% and Rock Thrust +50%
Marksman: Dexterous Shot +25% and Hellish Volley +33%
Rogue: Lethal Ambush +25% and Hellish Volley +33%

As Baltas said Cross of Annihilation could have cooldown reduced to 2 seconds. Maybe Hellish Volley from 4s reduced to 3s too.

We need more ideas and any feedback from Staff about our subject discussed here.

Agree! I think it can works well to raise exp in hunts with 1 mob per turn. That's the focus on single target classes and of course they need more damage to do AOE classes' exp. About %s you quoted, it really seems fair to me so nothing to discord.