Now that you have done dungeon 300 of ice, it is easy to want to have it to do the next one!

Do the 300 icy dg and it will be easy for you too.
Dont skip the game. Hahahahaah

The problem here is many people only think as a high level player.

My point of view is different, as I am low level, not equipped with best gear, and not quite experimented. I made some more precise calculations, taking into account the true combos I'm using in fight, and yes, keep in mind that a low level palladin like me has to heal a lot to survive a tanky fight.

Result : my loss is more than just 10-13%, about twice that. Don't misread : I'm not whining, I just try to catch my loss in the most precise way.

Ok, let's throw figures. In what follows H= heal C=cleave S=swipe

Before nerf : the most easy combo is simply CHCHCHCHCH. Currently for me, fighting 3 mobs, it's something like 600 dps and 250 hps (hit point healed per second). Sometimes it's too much heal, sometimes not, anyway it's the easy way.

Now : I tested several new combo (I'm not speaking about shield slam by purpose, see below).

1) CHSCHSCHSCHS .... : -20% dps at a cost of -32% hps. With this one I can't tank 3 azure dragons anymore ....
2) CHHCHHCHHCHH .... : -34% dps +33% hps. Stupid combo, not a good way to go, only if trapped in ambush.
3) CHSCHHCHS .... : -27% dps, same hps.


At that point, in fact, it's now often better to use Shield Slam (even when tanking several mobs) to kill faster a first mob and then having less heal to do for the rest of the fight ...

Having Shield Slam now useful even in tanky fight gave me the idea of the proposition above.

So now, it's not only a matter of exp/hour. The true question is : can we really consider a low level palladin as a tanker ?

A last pitty example to illustrate : using combo 1) against 2 bush terrors, once the first is dead (thanks to melee hit addition), the second one is ... almost full hp !!! (those mobs heal fast). Better kill them one by one (using shield slam, ofc).

dunno how agron calculated this losses 10-13% but thats not true, or maybe when he tested before the resp he had all the time normal monsters , and now by seting cleave coldown to 3sec he had many enraged or elite monster that why maybe he had 10-13%, or before he didnt use scroll and exp pot and now he used. I checked myself , spaming all the time cleave, shield slam, sweeping swipe, holy sword with a perfect combination and timing, and for me personally its 25-30%.

Askja you have right, thats not fair that some classes can exp faster and gain more lvls, what means more talents and all the time going faster be stronger, in my opinion this should go in similar way for all classes, by using their special class abilities hunting properly monsters, and thats main weeknest of zezenia there are not any spots for specific classes + weeknest of rangers and warlock + shaman

Mamrot, if your cleave is 1k dmg and u used to hit 5 monsters. It was 5k dmg every 2sec or 15k dmg in 6sec.

When cleave is 3sec u will be able to shoot 2 cleaves instead of 3. Which is 10k dmg.
Swipe? Lets say 300dmg so 1.5k on 5monsters.
Wep dmg remains the same, and all the single target (if u use/used them stay the same).
So instead of 15k dmg u will make 11.5k so thats 23.4% decrease.

Thats a perfect scenario if u wanna show yourself nerfed as much as possible.

But if u kill less monsters, it means u will spend less time on luring, looting etc. Also i believe there were situations where u had to miss cleave cuz u had to heal. Now u can choose to miss swipe which is less loss on exp/h.

So i believe agrons tests are kinda accurate.

swipe 220-250, cleave 1140-1188
u didnt notice that cleave 2sec cd gave me a lot of more hp life steal in one second that i didnt need to heal that often like i do now. So as you told 23.4% + more often healing gives about 25-30% depends. When the cleave was 2sec cd, i never skipped this for healing, my timing was perfect, i could spam cleave, shield slam, holy sword, and healing once per 2-3 turns.
I believe maybe agron calculations gave him another % of decrease cuz of different monster that he hunt, maybe more enrageds etc.
so lets say depends on monsters what u are hunting its min 15% max 25-30% and 40-50% less as many people said (but they dont know how to play paladin)

back cleave 2s.

Yes i agree +1

Give me some examples of spawns you like to hunt and I can try to prove you wrong.

So far i've only taken my best solo spawn into account. Before the cleave nerf I was on like 20kk-21kk per hour (note that we are on 2x exp).

Right now im on like 18-18.5kk per hour.

I would ask Baltas to do the maths for us but I think we can manage this one ourselfs.

Lets take the avarages; 18.250.000(new) - 20.500.000(old) = -2.250.000

-2.250.000 (exp difference) / 20.500.000 (old) = -0,109 x 100 = -10,97%.

EDIT - Both situations were with experience/debuff boost for 2h. Im pretty sure after 2h of hunting you can safely say you are on a stable number.